# Dahlia Scheindlin & Letty Cottin Pogrebin on "Shanda: A Memoir" Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFJOSpEhu0Q Recap page: https://rapidrecap.app/video/vFJOSpEhu0Q Generated: 2025-07-22T06:32:55.335+00:00 --- ## Quick Overview Letty Cottin Pogrebin's memoir "Shanda" explores the pervasive nature of shame and secrecy, particularly within Jewish culture, arguing that while corrosive shame erodes confidence, a "good shame" acts as a conscience, preventing harm and buttressing the rule of law. The book reveals how personal and familial secrets, often rooted in a desire for acceptance or survival, shape identity and can lead to profound self-discovery through their uncovering. **Key Points:** - Letty Cottin Pogrebin's book "Shanda" argues for a "good shame" that acts as a conscience, preventing harm and buttressing the rule of law, stating, "I'd like to wish everyone a secret free life but not a shame-free life because there's a Positive Purpose to certain kinds of Shame... the kind that makes for conscience." - Pogrebin distinguishes shame from guilt, explaining, "We say I am ashamed but I feel guilty," highlighting that shame is deeply incorporated into one's sense of self, while guilt is often fixable. - The author discovered her parents constructed an elaborate "Potemkin Village" of lies to hide their past, including a divorce in the 1920s, which was considered a major "shonda," leading her mother to state, "I lied because I could not stand the truth." - Jewish shame is rooted in biblical stories of barren women and deception, and historically manifested in practices like hidden Jews (conversos, Marranos) and name changes to fit in, as well as hiding family illnesses like cancer to protect marriage prospects, because "If you have ashanda in your family... you can't make ashanda so you hide." - Pogrebin expresses shame over Israel's 2018 nation-state law, which she believes "removed rights from the non-jewish population of Israel" and created second-class citizenship, calling it "ashonda." - Donald Trump exemplifies a dangerous "shamelessness," having "warped distorted twisted besmirched... the whole concept of Shame," which has delegitimized truth and legitimized immoral behavior in public life. - The book's central message is that uncovering and confronting family secrets, even painful ones, can lead to profound self-understanding and forgiveness, allowing individuals to be free of the condition of falsifying themselves. **Context:** The video features an interview between Dalia Scheindlin, a political analyst based in Israel, and Letty Cottin Pogrebin, a renowned writer, activist, and co-founder of Ms. magazine. The discussion centers on Pogrebin's new book, "Shanda: A Memoir of Shame and Secrecy," which explores the deeply personal and cultural aspects of shame, particularly within Jewish families and society. Scheindlin, who shares a connection with Pogrebin through their work on Israel-Palestine issues and Harvard Divinity School, guides the conversation through the book's core themes, personal revelations, and broader societal implications of shame and its absence. ## Detailed Analysis Letty Cottin Pogrebin's memoir "Shanda: A Memoir of Shame and Secrecy" delves into the multifaceted concept of shame, distinguishing it from guilt by noting that "I am ashamed" implies a deep self-incorporation, while "I feel guilty" suggests a fixable action. Pogrebin, co-founder of Ms. magazine, reveals her personal journey of uncovering family secrets, including her parents' lies about their past to shield her from perceived "shanda" (Jewish shame), which she discovered through hundreds of old letters. The book argues for a distinctly Jewish manifestation of shame, citing biblical stories of barren women and deception, historical instances of hidden Jews, and the cultural practice of concealing family issues like mental illness or cancer to protect marriage prospects. Pogrebin also explores cross-cultural shame, noting similar patterns in other immigrant communities and discussing how societal figures like Donald Trump exemplify a dangerous "shamelessness." Ultimately, she advocates for a "good shame" that fosters conscience and prevents harmful actions, contrasting it with the destructive shame that leads to self-falsification, as seen in her mother's efforts to hide her eighth-grade education. The interview concludes by discussing the concept of shame in contemporary Israel, particularly regarding the nation-state law, and the importance of speaking up against shameful policies. ### Introduction to "Shanda" - Letty Cottin Pogrebin, co-founder of Ms. magazine and author of 12 books, discusses her new memoir "Shanda: A Memoir of Shame and Secrecy" with Dalia Scheindlin - Pogrebin defines "Shanda" as Jewish shame and clarifies that the book is not a call for a shame-free life, but rather a secret-free life, advocating for a "good shame" that fosters conscience - She distinguishes shame from guilt, noting "I am ashamed" implies a deep self-incorporation, while "I feel guilty" suggests a fixable action. ### Personal and Family Revelations - Pogrebin shares that writing the book helped her unmask a significant personal secret related to an illness, which she feared would affect perceptions of her intellect - The discovery of hundreds of old family letters, including a deathbed note from her mother stating "I lied because I could not stand the truth," was crucial in reconstructing her family's history of shame and secrecy - She learned her parents constructed a "Potemkin Village" of lies to hide their past, including her father's first marriage and divorce in the 1920s, which was considered a major "shonda." ### The Jewish Angle of Shame - Pogrebin argues for a distinctly Jewish problem with shame, citing biblical stories of barren women and deception (e.g., Jacob and Esau) - She highlights historical examples like conversos, Marranos, and Holocaust survivors who hid their Jewish identity, and the practice of Jews changing names to fit in - The concept of "shanda" in Orthodox communities prevents matches if a family has a hidden illness like cancer, leading to extreme secrecy. ### Cross-Cultural and Societal Shame - Pogrebin acknowledges cross-cultural shame stories, such as a Chinese-American poet's family hiding cultural revolution experiences, but emphasizes the strong Jewish component of her book - She discusses how shame manifests in physical aspects (menstruation, wetting pants) and societal expectations (pretending to be a college graduate, lying about military service) - The interview touches on the "shamelessness" of figures like Donald Trump, who has "warped, distorted, twisted, besmirched" the concept of shame, legitimizing lies and immoral behavior. ### Shame in Contemporary Israel - Pogrebin expresses shame over Israel's 2018 nation-state law, which she believes removed rights from non-Jewish populations and created second-class citizenship for Palestinian Israelis - She notes that the word "Shonda" is not commonly understood in Israel, where it's considered a Yiddish, "old world" mentality, and Hebrew uses "bucha" (disgrace) - Pogrebin asserts that when ashamed of a family member or nation, one must speak up, advocating for owning one's shame rather than accepting shamelessness.