# AI as Design Material: Building Better Products | Lean Stories with Josh Clark & Veronika Kindred Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udiRbjDX0GE Recap page: https://rapidrecap.app/video/udiRbjDX0GE Generated: 2026-01-06T21:35:59.89+00:00 --- ## Quick Overview The main outcome discussed is that while AI tools like ChatGPT are powerful for accelerating design and prototyping, they should not replace the core human element of deep customer understanding and experience, emphasizing that AI is a tool to augment, not substitute, human-led, customer-centric innovation processes. **Key Points:** - The discussion centers on the role of AI as a design material, specifically noting that while AI accelerates prototyping, it cannot replace deep user understanding. - Josh Clark notes that in his early work with a big insurance company, the failure to deeply understand user needs was a recurring problem, which AI could help solve now. - The concept of 'sentient design' is highlighted, where AI systems are aware of context and intent, moving beyond simple command-response interactions. - A key takeaway is the danger of an 'AI-first' mindset leading to shortcuts, potentially resulting in products that are technically sound but fail to meet actual user needs or desires. - The speakers agree that the product experience must remain the central focus, requiring human teams to iterate based on real user feedback, not just AI output. - The conversation underscores the importance of retaining human expertise (like cognitive psychology) even as AI tools become more capable in design tasks. ![Screenshot at 00:06: The host Jonathan Bertfield states that a big part of maturing is failing, setting the stage for a discussion about learning from mistakes in product development, especially in the context of new AI tools.](https://ss.rapidrecap.app/screens/udiRbjDX0GE/00-00-06.jpg) **Context:** This episode of 'Lean Stories' hosted by Jonathan Bertfield features product leaders and innovators discussing how Artificial Intelligence (AI) is transforming product development and design. The conversation specifically focuses on Josh Clark, founder of Big Medium, a design studio specializing in mobile and emotional technologies, and Veronika Kindred, a designer and researcher at Big Medium, regarding their experiences integrating AI into user-centric design methodologies. ## Detailed Analysis The discussion emphasizes that while AI offers incredible speed in generating prototypes and testing ideas, it lacks genuine user empathy and understanding, which remains a critical human domain. Josh Clark recounts an early project at a large insurance company where the focus on speed often led to overlooking fundamental user needs—a problem AI could now help solve by accelerating the feedback loop. He points out that the danger lies in adopting an 'AI-first' mindset, where reliance on quick AI outputs bypasses the necessary deep interaction and research required to truly understand user pain points and desires. Veronika Kindred adds that many companies are still focused on the 'fast and cheap' aspect of AI tools rather than using them to gain deeper insights. The speakers suggest that AI should be treated as a material that elevates design, rather than a replacement for the core discovery process. They stress the importance of continuous iteration informed by real user feedback and the necessity of maintaining a customer-centric approach, even when powerful tools are available. The conversation concludes with a call to action: don't let AI fly the plane alone; use it to augment human understanding and ensure products serve genuine user needs. ### Introduction to AI in Design - Jonathan Bertfield introduces the topic of AI as a design material - Josh Clark and Veronika Kindred join to discuss their experiences - Initial point made: maturation involves failing until success is achieved. ### The Role of AI in Experience Design - AI accelerates prototyping and testing ideas - AI can help overcome past difficulties in deeply understanding user needs (e.g., in insurance projects) - AI makes it fast and cheap to iterate. ### The Caveat - AI's Limitations: AI lacks genuine user empathy and understanding (the 'intent side') - Over-reliance on AI risks producing technically sound but ultimately flawed products - Companies often mistake AI capability for customer understanding. ### The Human Element Remains Crucial - The goal is not to let AI replace human interaction or research - True innovation requires human discovery and iteration based on real feedback. ### Future Focus - The discussion shifts to how to integrate AI without losing focus on genuine user needs - The core of good design remains consistent, whether using AI or not. ![Screenshot at 00:21: Jonathan Bertfield introduces the podcast and the theme of learning from product leaders globally.](https://ss.rapidrecap.app/screens/udiRbjDX0GE/00-00-21.jpg) ![Screenshot at 06:06: Veronika Kindred discussing the immediate and widespread adoption of AI tools like ChatGPT.](https://ss.rapidrecap.app/screens/udiRbjDX0GE/00-06-06.jpg) ![Screenshot at 02:04: The three participants—Veronika Kindred, Josh Clark, and Jonathan Bertfield—are introduced in the main video panel.](https://ss.rapidrecap.app/screens/udiRbjDX0GE/00-02-04.jpg) ![Screenshot at 03:03: Josh Clark emphasizes that AI's value is not just answering questions but in understanding the 'question side' of problems.](https://ss.rapidrecap.app/screens/udiRbjDX0GE/00-03-03.jpg) ![Screenshot at 09:59: Josh Clark elaborates on the challenge of large companies resisting change due to a fear of risk.](https://ss.rapidrecap.app/screens/udiRbjDX0GE/00-09-59.jpg)