# Ancient History Frees the Political Imagination | Aaron Bastani Meets Josephine Quinn

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUDmxmsaxqc
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Generated: 2025-09-14T15:05:12.559+00:00

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## Quick Overview

Ancient history, particularly the study of classics, frees the political imagination by demonstrating the vast diversity of human thought and societal organization throughout time, thereby challenging the assumption of a single, inevitable human nature or political system and offering alternatives to contemporary capitalist realism. Professor Josephine Quinn argues that understanding vastly different ancient perspectives on issues like sexuality, race, and gender, and recalling historical political regimes beyond democracy, opens up possibilities for envisioning future societal structures, a concept mirrored in science fiction but grounded in historical reality.

**Key Points:**
- Professor Josephine Quinn advocates for the study of ancient languages and history, not only for cognitive benefits and career advantages (e.g., classics degrees being favored by employers) but primarily to liberate the political imagination by showing the radical difference of past human societies and thought.
- Quinn argues against the concept of a fixed 'human nature,' asserting that ancient peoples held vastly different ideas about sexuality, race, and gender, demonstrating that current options are not exhaustive and that entirely different worldviews are possible, a realization she finds 'immensely liberating.'
- The study of ancient history, like science fiction, opens up a 'horizon of possibility for human affairs' by revealing that 'real people really have those ideas' and that alternative societal structures to modern democracy, such as more voluntary and equal communities, have existed historically.
- Quinn critiques the arbitrary division between ancient and modern history, particularly the notion of 'civilizational thinking' that emerged around 1500 CE, marking a shift from religion and culture as unifying forces to divisive ones, leading to concepts of separate, often hierarchical, civilizations.
- The Bronze Age collapse, where major empires like Egypt and the Hittites fell, serves as a historical example of systemic vulnerability due to over-reliance on interconnected states, leading to simpler lifestyles and a retrenchment, although Quinn worries modern states' collapse might be more catastrophic.
- Quinn suggests that the decline in writing after the Bronze Age collapse was a choice for safety and ease, not a loss of ability, as writing is often tied to taxation and control; she highlights the power of oral traditions, citing Australian Aboriginal histories remembering the end of the Ice Age (10,000 years ago) as an example of profound collective memory.
- The conversation links the study of classics to challenging 'capitalist realism' and expanding political possibilities, drawing parallels with thinkers like Mark Fisher and David Graeber, and questioning contemporary assumptions about the inevitability of current political and social structures.

**Context:** This transcript is from an interview with Professor Josephine Quinn, a professor of ancient history at Cambridge University, discussing her book "How the World Made the West." The conversation, moderated by Aaron Bastani, explores how studying ancient history and classics can challenge contemporary political and social assumptions. Quinn emphasizes the importance of understanding diverse historical perspectives to broaden our imagination of what is possible for human societies and to counter what she terms 'capitalist realism.' The discussion touches on themes of human nature, political organization, the arbitrary nature of historical periodization, and lessons from historical collapses like the Bronze Age.

## Detailed Analysis

Professor Josephine Quinn, the first woman to hold the professorship of ancient history at Cambridge, argues in this interview that studying ancient history and classics is crucial for freeing the political imagination. She advocates for learning ancient languages, not for communication, but for the intellectual rigor and perspective they offer, likening the study of the past to science fiction in its ability to open up new possibilities for human affairs, but grounded in historical reality. Quinn contends that understanding how different ancient peoples conceived of concepts like sexuality, race, and gender dismantles the notion of a fixed human nature and reveals that current societal options are not the only ones possible, which she finds liberating. She critiques the arbitrary demarcation between ancient and modern history, particularly the development of 'civilizational thinking' around 1500 CE, which shifted culture and religion from unifying forces to divisive ones. Quinn uses the Bronze Age collapse as an example of how interconnected empires can become vulnerable, leading to a simpler existence for many, though she expresses concern that a modern state collapse might be more devastating. She also posits that the decline of writing after the Bronze Age was a conscious choice for safety, highlighting the enduring power of oral traditions, exemplified by Australian Aboriginal histories stretching back 10,000 years. Ultimately, Quinn suggests that by examining the vast array of historical human experiences and political systems, we can challenge contemporary assumptions and imagine alternative futures beyond current limitations.

### Interview Key Topics

- Value of studying ancient history and classics
- Challenging 'human nature' and political assumptions
- Critique of historical periodization and 'civilizational thinking'
- Lessons from the Bronze Age collapse and the role of writing
- Expanding political imagination beyond capitalist realism

### Professor Quinn's Arguments

- Ancient languages develop brains and offer unique perspectives
- Historical diversity of ideas on sexuality, race, and gender counters fixed human nature
- Democracy is historically rare; other, more voluntary communities existed
- 'Civilizational thinking' as a modern, divisive concept emerging post-1500
- Bronze Age collapse reveals systemic vulnerability and potential for simpler lifestyles
- Decline of writing was a choice for safety, not loss of ability; oral traditions preserve deep memory

### Historical Examples

- Bronze Age empires (Egypt, Mesopotamia, Hittites) collapse
- Pre-1500 CE cultures often used religion to unite people
- Post-1500 CE saw religion and culture become divisive (e.g., ethnic cleansing in Europe, forced conversions)
- Australian Aboriginal oral histories remembering the end of the Ice Age (10,000 years ago)

### Connections to Thinkers

- Parallels drawn with science fiction's ability to open political possibilities (Kim Stanley Robinson)
- Influence of Mark Fisher and Frederick Jameson in challenging capitalist realism
- Mentions of David Graeber and radical archaeology